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Earthsong Cosmology
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JackAce



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Earthsong Cosmology Reply with quote

((EDIT BY MAENIEL: Topic split from Willow Theories here.))

Hi, Deacon!

Your idea does sound interesting ... altough I honestly doubt that it's actually accurate.


It does, however raise the question where Moons stand within the Cosmology of the Earthsong-verse. We know that the Planets are, basically, the children of the Sidera (the Stars).

Would Moons then be the children of the Planets? I find this rather unlikely, since that status seems to be reserved for sentient life forms the Planets created on their own surface.

Are Moons perhaps a "lesser breed" of Planets, subordinate to the "real" Planets?


On a similar note, do all Planets (and potentially Moons as well) have sentient minds? In a solar system with a dozen Planets and hundreds of Moons, could they all decide to produce their own Eves? Would the Sidera allow this?

What about Gas Giants? Would they even count as "Planets" in this sense? Gas Giants can have Moons which are larger than the smallest of Planets. Would these be eligeble for Planet status?
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Tenshi



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the interesting thing about theories. We can throw the ideas around so long that we could, in effect, create an entire system for the universe.

I have a sneaking suspicion that once we find out what the reality actually is, it's going to be one of those simple answers that we all over-thought our way out of...

I still like the moon theory, though.
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Maeniel



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Jupiter goes, the Lady has said that planets like that are indeed Planets. They just aren't interested in having children, so they haven't prepared their surfaces accordingly.

The moon bit is interesting.
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Wren



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we don't know how long the soulstone plague has been going on, moons could be bits of dead planets (stuck back together). Or they could be other planets who don't want to/can't have children.
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JackAce



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this discussion about the nature of heavenly bodies quite interesting, but it's a bit out of place in the Willow Theories thread.

Perhaps one of the mods coud move the respective posts to a new thread dedicated to General Cosmology Theories?
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YatesOfYore
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grah! I've tried to split the topic but the forum keeps giving me attitude and I don't know how to get around it. If people are interested in continuing the conversation I guess they could just copy and paste the relevant bits into a new thread.

Sorry!
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Maeniel



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hee hee hee.
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Maeniel



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this topic fascinating. At what point do chunks of matter become Planets and begin to have consciousness? Asteroids? What about larger asteroids, like Charon? Planetoids like Pluto? Moons? What are nebulas in the Earthsong universe? Does a part of the Sideria die when a supernova goes boom? What about the formation of new stars? Does the Sideria change and evolve like that? And black holes?

Important stuff to consider. Smile
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JackAce



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's my Big Hypothesis on Earthsong's Cosmology.

I'm not sure if it really conforms to all we know so far about the ES-verse, but I like it. Wink

Whenever a new planetary system is formed, the Sidera release enough Planetary Element into the system to form one Planet (with a capital "P"). This infant Planet then gets to choose for Itself what type of celestial body It wished to become. Most new Planets choose the form of a regular, terrestrial rock planet, but some also choose to be gas giants, moons or even asteroid belts.

All other celestial bodies within the same system are formed by the Sidera. The young Planet can make certain requests about Its system's configuration, but the final decisions always lie with the Sidera. These additional planets, moons, asteroids, etc also have a basic consciousness, but not the higher awareness of a true Planet. Basically, they are related to the Planet in roughly the same way that plants and animals within a Planet's ecological system are related to the Planet's Children.

The appearance of a Planet's Manifestation is chosen upon the creation of the Manifest Stone. Creating a Manifest Stone is by no means mandatory, and some Planets, especially those not interested in creating Children, choose not to. The earliest Planets created their Manifest Stones only after the birth of their Eves, and chose an apperance similar to their children, but still different enough to be recognized as a unique entity. Later on, younger Planets often created their Manifest Stones in advance, and modelled their own appearance after the older Planets' examples.

In the creation of their Children young Planets are advised by the Alpha Planets. Following their examples, the most common form chosen for a new breed of Children is the two-legged, two-armed humanoid, although some Planets have also chosen to deviate from this template considerably.
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Tenshi



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it, it (mostly) makes sense...

So, what if over eons and eons one of these sub-Planet (with the capital) consciousnesses slowly gained intelligence, watching it's bigger siblings. Eons passed, and stars lit and winked out in the sky, and yet this smaller planet or moon was learning. Eventually, this smaller planet grew to become self-aware, and decided to do as it had watched it's sibling do, and create and Eve...

Bam, Willow. Dear lord, it makes some sense...!
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JackAce



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenshi wrote:
So, what if over eons and eons one of these sub-Planet (with the capital) consciousnesses slowly gained intelligence, watching it's bigger siblings. Eons passed, and stars lit and winked out in the sky, and yet this smaller planet or moon was learning. Eventually, this smaller planet grew to become self-aware, and decided to do as it had watched it's sibling do, and create and Eve...

Bam, Willow. Dear lord, it makes some sense...!

This, of course, assumes that celestial bodies which were not created with a Planetary awareness (i.e. an Elemental core) are even capable of developing this level of consciousness.


How about this:

A planet decided rather late during its existence that it wanted to have a moon. The initial formation of the planetary system was long finished, so the only way it could get one was to create it from its own essence. Thus, this moon was also infused with a portion of the Planet's Element.

Later on, the same Planet created Children, these Children developed Soulstones, and finally the Planet was killed by the resulting Elemental chain reaction.

Now, the Planet's Element didn't simply vanish into the aether. It was scattered around the system during the Planet's destruction -- and it did what all escaped Element does: It accumulated in a body that already contained a portion of the same Element: the Moon!

Now, all that remains of the formar Planet's Element is bound in the Moon, elevating its awareness to the level of a (rather primitive) Planet...


The Problem with this Theory - at least as far as Willow is concerned - is that to create his own Children, the Moon would still need the assistence of the Alpha Planets. So they would know about the creation of this new race. And Earthsong did ask them. Neither Sage nor Obilish knew anything about a new race, and Gaia didn't even answer...
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One minor thing, is that Lady's already said there aren't going to be children from gas giants or anything, because she doesn't want to have to deal with the weird environmental consequences of children adapted to gas-giant planets visiting Earthsong.

It'd be real tough. I mean, imagine a big creature something like a manta ray only adapted to a life on a gas giant with such high surface pressure that it rains diamonds. Then they visit Earthsong. My guess is that, quite aside from not being able to breathe the atmosphere, and not being equipped with locomotory organs suited to the environment, the poor child would probably explode on arrival due to pressure imbalances between its interior and Earthsong's atmosphere. Yay! Bits of gas manta, strewn across the countryside!

So, as Lady said in the old forum, any planets with children are going to be Class M. In Star Trek parlance, that is.
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JackAce



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinalles wrote:
One minor thing, is that Lady's already said there aren't going to be children from gas giants or anything, because she doesn't want to have to deal with the weird environmental consequences of children adapted to gas-giant planets visiting Earthsong.

So, as Lady said in the old forum, any planets with children are going to be Class M. In Star Trek parlance, that is.

Maeniel wrote:
As far as Jupiter goes, the Lady has said that planets like that are indeed Planets. They just aren't interested in having children, so they haven't prepared their surfaces accordingly.

A gas giant Planet could try to terraform one of the moons orbiting it and place his Children there...
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Lithrath



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or said gas giant could eat it's moon(s) to acquire more raw material to create it's surface.

Afterall, Jupiter has enough to spare if he ever wanted to create life. Just needs to eat a few moons, tighten himself up, jump to the other side of the asteroid belt (perhaps eating a few asteroids along the way) and voila! Jupiter is ready to terraform himself. ^__^

The concept of Moons being snacks amuses me to no end.
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