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Vote for Change - V for Change
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Do you agree with my "Training Video"?
Yes!
16%
 16%  [ 2 ]
No!
75%
 75%  [ 9 ]
Bits and Peices
8%
 8%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 12

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daydreamer_girl



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark Mirf wrote:

@Tenshi: I think... Socialist, Libertarian, Independent, Republican, Democrate, Green, Consitution, and... Peace and Freedom too I think?
Wow...I only thought there was two...shows how much I know of American politics.

Those names though, sounds so....American.
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unimportant



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XD our system is so complex, most people choose to ignore the eccentricities and pretend its simple.

I was wondering, does anyone have an opinion on what I believe is called "watershed voting"? It's the format where you place the candidates in a certain order, your top choice being number one, your second choice number two, etc. And then, if your top choice doesn't get picked, that candidate is removed from the running and your vote is counted towards your next highest pick that's still in the running, and so on until a winner is chosen.

It seems somewhat complicated to me, but I do like the theory of it. Any thoughts?
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theBSDude



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's the basic principle behind primaries.
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunshine wrote:
@devilman- dude... that was a little over eight years ago XD


Even at that, is there any way you could replecate it?

And out of curiousity, who were the two people that voted yes to my poll?
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*smirk*

I was one.
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theBSDude wrote:
*smirk*

I was one.


You must like McCain. Why is it?
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theBSDude



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really not a lot to do with my support for McCain; more about the video itself. I do support McCain, though, due to a number of factors, including family loyalty to nuclear energy. Manhataan Project, ftw!
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theBSDude wrote:
Really not a lot to do with my support for McCain; more about the video itself. I do support McCain, though, due to a number of factors, including family loyalty to nuclear energy. Manhataan Project, ftw!


I see. I love the idea behind nuclear energy as well. I don't know why our country hasn't moved a little more readily to it.

And what's FTW mean? I see it everywhere, but never really knew what it meant.
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to ask too... it's 'For the Win.'
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it current forms of nuclear energy have about twenty to thirty years worth of fuel left on most production curves, at current use rates.
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Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ironically, that coincides with the figures I last heard for fossil fuel consumption...
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electricpanda



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unimportant wrote:
It's absolutely true, we are usually better represented by a party other than one of the main two. The problem is a lot of people feel their vote didn't count if they go third party, and in a way it doesn't. At least not to the degree a vote for a republican or democrat would.


In Australia, they have a multiple party system, but there's two central parties. However, the upper house is split into the percentage of which parties got the votes. At the moment, the main to parties have about 40% each, but the Greens Party holds the balance of power - if one of the sides wants to pass a law that the other party would naturally block, they'd have to go through the Greens to do so. Which works.

What was I talking about? Oh yes. Preferential voting. Because we've got preferential voting (i.e, Mr. Dude 1, Eleanor Rigby 2, Einstein 3 etc), the voting magicians somehow figure out what the country's (supposedly) most preferred party is - it also allows you to vote for minority parties, because if they don't do too well, your vote carrys over to the candidates still in the running. I think lots of places would probably be better off with it (and the American political system needs a pretty major overhaul anyway).
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Tamir



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've got a multiparty system, where again, the Knesset is split accordingly by which parties got more votes. There are 120 seats total in the Knesset, and if a party didn't get enough votes for 2 seats, they're not represented. So we have many parties which never seem to get represented, and around 10-15 which do get represented. This ensures that people can vote for what they really want, however we pay for it by a lack of stability in the government. In order to pass laws, different parties have to form coalitions, and often it's hard to get things done.

I kinda like it, though.
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unimportant wrote:
What was I talking about? Oh yes. Preferential voting. Because we've got preferential voting (i.e, Mr. Dude 1, Eleanor Rigby 2, Einstein 3 etc), the voting magicians somehow figure out what the country's (supposedly) most preferred party is - it also allows you to vote for minority parties, because if they don't do too well, your vote carrys over to the candidates still in the running. I think lots of places would probably be better off with it (and the American political system needs a pretty major overhaul anyway).


Our primaries are kind of like that in a since. We vote for who we're interested in, then the person with the most votes gets the nomination. If you're choice doesn't win, your support is assumed to go to the person who's nominated.

It really doesn't matter though, because some of us vote democratic one time, and republican the next. Basically, we vote for who we like, not necessarily on a party basis.
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Tinalles
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Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary election system doesn't really resemble the system that Fable was asking about. There are several rank-your-choices type systems. The most common is is the Condorcet Method.

It works like this:

1) Potential candidates for a position sign up.

2) Campaign.

3) Voters cast ballots. On the ballots, they vote for EVERY CANDIDATE, by indicating their order of preference. (Top choice, second choice, third choice, etc.)

4) In order to win, you have to have a clear majority of votes -- that is, you MUST have 50% or more of the vote. The vote counters go through and tally up the FIRST CHOICE votes only. Suppose you have a three person race, with candidates Alice, Bob, and Charlene, and the FIRST CHOICE breaks down like this:

Alice: 40%
Bob: 40%
Charlene: 20%

No candidate has a total of 50% or more. But Charlene has the least number of votes. Therefore Charlene is eliminated from the running, and they count the ballots again. This time, on any ballot that indicated Charlene as their FIRST choice, they count the SECOND CHOICE vote instead. The new totals break down like this:

Alice: 60%
Bob: 40%;

Alice is now the winner. She is the candidate who is MOST acceptable to the largest number of people. You repeat that process (throwing out the least popular candidate) until somebody has a majority.

There are variations, of course, and provisions for tie breakers (if you got a case where it's 50/50 dead split).

The basic idea is to make it possible for people to vote for third party candidates without wasting their vote. Under our current system, a vote for a third party candidate is frequently beneficial to the voter's political opponents. Scenario: suppose I'm a conservative libertarian type, and that I like Ron Paul, am so-so on John McCain, and hate Obama's guts. Ron Paul doesn't really stand a chance. If I vote for Ron Paul, that's a vote that John McCain isn't getting, and so it winds up benefiting Obama, the candidate I like least. And exactly the same thing happens on the other end of the spectrum, where I can't vote for Cynthia McKinney (the Green Party candidate) without taking a vote away from Obama, in favor of McCain.

Ranking your candidates makes it a lot easier for people to support third-party candidates, because there's no fear that you'll accidentally throw the race to your least favored candidate. Al Gore lost Florida by a few hundred votes. If he'd had thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Nader's votes added to his, he would had been President. And I bet a lot of those Green Party voters from 2000 where really, really sorry they went with the third party candidate once GW Bush won.
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