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Vote for Change - V for Change
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Do you agree with my "Training Video"?
Yes!
16%
 16%  [ 2 ]
No!
75%
 75%  [ 9 ]
Bits and Peices
8%
 8%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 12

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theBSDude



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 1800
Location: The boring part of Washington

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In line with what sunny said, another option is breaking up the quote, and basically do what you did by adding numbers.
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Ravenna: But it's ghost is what started the conversation....
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unimportant



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LadyYates wrote:

But I can imagine that it IS very hard to try to see the candidates neutrally in the States, given how very... hereditary party affiliation seems to be down there. So I suppose what I'm getting at is that what most people call their "gut" reaction is just a preference instilled in them by their family and immediate community thinking.[/disclaimer]


See, I completely agree with you in that voting without informing oneself first is irresponsible and reckless, but I disagree somewhat on the problem of 'heredity' voting, or rather that it is a problem.

I think in a situation like an election, where in the end there's not really a right and wrong decision, we're nothing but our influences in deciding what's right or wrong for us. Our family tries to educate us as best it can, as does the community, ideally, and we take what they give. Hopefully we add our own research and observations, independent of their influence, into the calculation, but at the fundamental level we are how we're raised to be. I don't think there's anything wrong with being heavily influenced by your surroundings or family, I just think it needs to have some independently acquired information thrown in there, you know?
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sunshine



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ unimportant- The problem with "hereditary" opinions is that far too often it happens that a person blindly and unquestioningly accepts the things that their parents and/or community says as truth, rather than one of many points of view. It's one of the most common ways that racism and other prejudices are born; not because a person genuinely feels that another person is inherently wrong simply by existing, but because that other person has always been considered wrong by everyone around them. So they accept it, without thinking, and in time come to believe so strongly in that opinion that it becomes truth, without ever having anything other than "everybody else is doing it" as an argument for why.
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Tinalles
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Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: Grand Forks

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

devilman2045 wrote:
... I wanted you to vote. I really don't care as to who you vote for. As long as it's on everyones lips, I've done my job.


So, question for all the people eligible to vote in the American presidential election: how many of you were planning to vote before reading this thread?

*raises hand*
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theBSDude



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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Location: The boring part of Washington

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*raises hand*
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinalles wrote:
devilman2045 wrote:
... I wanted you to vote. I really don't care as to who you vote for. As long as it's on everyones lips, I've done my job.


So, question for all the people eligible to vote in the American presidential election: how many of you were planning to vote before reading this thread?

*raises hand*


You forget that I also wanted others in foreign lands to be aware of the issues too. There's no point to any of this, really, unless you take it into consideration as a whole.
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voting is hardly the be all and end all of social change. The problems with the American system of government run much deeper than the president and I fear require a much greater investment in liberty from its citizens than scrawling their names on a bit of paper once every few years.
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Maeniel



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Location: Next to Waldo

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh. I feel like how this all came about is kinda pointless at this point. Discussion board = discussion, which is what we're here for! We should be discussing the upcoming election; writing rhetoric is more writer's forumy stuff...though everybody should take note of what Tin (& co) are saying--it's good advice! Smile

RE: Hereditary voting, I feel like all too often, this IS what happens. I was raised in a VERY progressive family; one of my grandmother's bridesmaids was transgendered--and this was JUST after WWII!!! My grandfather marched on Washington with MLK, and my father and uncles protested the Vietnam War.

Filter on down to me. Before I really began questioning what issues were important to me and why (and what my personal thoughts were about), I ALWAYS sided with my parents, even though I didn't really understand what was going on. I feel like so many people don't really get to the point where they divert from their parents; their parents have influenced their thoughts so much that they CAN'T divert. But really...how many people from other countries (or even our own) disagree fundamentally from their parents? And which way do people generally shift--more liberal, or more conservative?
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Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

**raises hand** I was going to vote.

@Maen: I've seen people go either way when they split from their parents' viewpoints. Myself, I'm so liberal that my father refuses to talk politics with me...and that's only a few issues that I've really "switched sides" on. Granted they're deal breakers for a lot of people, I guess...
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electricpanda



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mum never really discussed politics with me except from a purely objective standpoint - she said she didn't want to mould me into some kind of clone of her.

I still ended up with some pretty similar views, though. XD Although it doesn't help that much of the media and people in my area are quite liberal.

Although my mother's parents were both quite conservative, to my understanding.
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Tamir



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've taken on almost all of my father's views, and that bothers me. It bothers me especially because I can easily picture myself having different opinions had I been raised differently. So I try to keep my mind open, I listen to what other people have to say, but it doesn't end up changing my opinion. I'm only comforted by the fact that my father is a very intelligent man.

That said, our opinions seem to be diverging when it comes to American politics. This might be because I formed an opinion without talking to him, or because I did more information-gathering. Now to hear what he has to say! ^_^
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Tinalles
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Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My views are very similar to those of my parents, with the exception of one issue -- copyright. My mother (and to a lesser degree my father) are convinced that copyright is basically good, and that we need to either keep the system as-is, or else expand it to cover even more stuff than it already does.

I, on the other hand, am not convinced that copyright is basically good. The basic idea of stimulating the production of new works of art and science by rewarding people who do it is lovely. I approve of that wholeheartedly. However, I am not at all convinced that our current set of copyright laws and policies are actually fulfilling that goal. It seems to me that the rules have been thoroughly suborned by a few large corporations. At their prompting, the copyright law of the U.S. (and worldwide through large international treaties) has been made a barrier to new works more than a stimulus for new works.

So that difference of opinion between my parents and I leads me to believe that political opinions are not simply inherited. Probably most people take their basic attitude from their parents, but modify a few positions. So change is slow, yes; but it happens steadily.
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devilman2045
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually been told I'm liberal. I'm not sure though. I usually don't focus to hard on any one issue until it's brought up to me, then I ponder a lot about it. I put a lot of thought into it at that point, and have a strong rationalized answer at that point usually.

What do you all think that makes me?
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's what you do after the rationalisation of the facts, by whatever degree that happens, that makes you one thing or another.
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