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Vote for Change - V for Change
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Do you agree with my "Training Video"?
Yes!
16%
 16%  [ 2 ]
No!
75%
 75%  [ 9 ]
Bits and Peices
8%
 8%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 12

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Violabelle



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyris wrote:
Tinalles wrote:
If you go strictly by year count, Palin has more legislative experience than Obama does
Why are you comparing Palin to Obama in the first place? Are you expecting McCain to have a heart attack and put Palin in the President's chair within a week?


Yes. Laughing
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was comparing them because those were the two politicians named in devilman's earlier post. Here:

devilman2045 back on page 2 wrote:
Personaly, I look at it like this:

Palin - 4 yrs as Govenor, plus previous number of years as a city council leader.

Obama - 173 days as a senator (out of a two year term). That's slightly less 25% of the time he was supposed to serve.


So I guess the question is why was devilman comparing Palin and Obama to start with?

Tyris wrote:
Are you expecting McCain to have a heart attack and put Palin in the President's chair within a week?


It's not outside the realm of possibility. McCain's fairly old, and old people have this tendency to die. You know? I'm sure that he would get the World's Best Health Care as President, but that's no guarantee.

I find it worrisome that the McCain campaign hasn't released his health records. He let five journalists look at them for three hours last May. There were in excess of a thousand pages, they weren't allowed to make photocopies, and only one of the journalists was a doctor (fellow named Sanjay Gupta). That's not a long time to really grasp that much info.

Actually, though, I suspect that he's physically up to the job. It's his mental health that worries me. He's been making an awful lot of odd verbal slips lately. Did you notice that he used the "I didn't win any Miss Congeniality awards" joke twice in the first debate? And the thing where he keeps swapping words that begin with S.

So ... what if he's developing Alzheimer's? It could also just be the stress of the campaign (that kind of schedule has got to be rough). But then, the White House isn't exactly famous for its relaxed working environment either.

If that happens, Palin might well end up making most of the decisions in a power-behind-the-throne kind of way. In fact, if McCain were to get elected and then develop Alzheimer's, I would actually want someone else making the decisions. The prospect of giving control of the world's largest nuclear arsenal to someone with impaired judgment scares the spit out of me.
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Tyris



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinalles wrote:
So I guess the question is why was devilman comparing Palin and Obama to start with?
Indeed, and we had intended to ask then, but decided to go to sleep instead. When today came around, your post was more conveniently to hand for the quoting of.

Tinalles wrote:
It's not outside the realm of possibility.
And it was a serious suggestion, albeit a slightly exaggerated one.
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sunshine



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I haven't completely decided which candidate I will vote for, I can say at least that I am terribly relieved by the quality of choices we have this time around.

Four years ago it was Bush and Kerry, neither of whom I'd have trusted to house sit for me, let alone run a country. This time I have actually found merit in both candidates, to the point where I don't feel like I'm choosing between the lesser of two evils, but between two people who both have merits and flaws, just like any human being.
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Tinu.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinalles wrote:


Tyris wrote:
Are you expecting McCain to have a heart attack and put Palin in the President's chair within a week?


It's not outside the realm of possibility.

It's also in the realm of possibility that Obama gets assassinated in his first week of president. >>;

Well, it is. All it takes is a redneck with a gun . . .
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunshine wrote:
This time I have actually found merit in both candidates, to the point where I don't feel like I'm choosing between the lesser of two evils, but between two people who both have merits and flaws, just like any human being.


That was my thought. I thought Obama was charismatic, until I heard him on Jimmy Kimmel. The guy cannot talk with out a script. I think he really believes in what he says, though.

My main reasons for siding with McCain are his experience, his knowledge of economics and energy (esp. nuclear), and (ironically, based on Tinu's post) his foreign policy. I mean, I live a few miles from one of the Manhattan Project sites. I don't want a president who doesn't understand nuclear energy.
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sunshine



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ TheDude - Exactly my point. So far as people, I actually kinda like both of them. Both seem very passionate people and very strong in their beliefs.

The trick is going to be figuring out which one I like as president, as well, and I suspect that will end up depending on how much I agree with the beliefs they hold so strongly, rather than years of experience or any social factors (not that I pay much mind to the social side anyways)
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is an energy crisis and the worst economical disaster since the depression (and we'll throw in global climate change, just for poops and giggles), then social issues should take a back seat anyway.


@Devilman: You should post in the intro section, dude. Let us throw cookies at you, and crap.
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinu. wrote:
It's also in the realm of possibility that Obama gets assassinated in his first week of president. >>;


That's true. But the same is possible with McCain. And anyway, if Obama were to be assassinated, Joe Biden would take over. He's pretty clearly qualified for the job, which Palin basically is not.
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Tamir



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*takes notes*

Sidenote - I know a few Israeli Americans (American Israelis? Confused) who aren't voting in the elections. Some of them say that since they have no plans to move back to America, it's unfair for them to vote. They're not members of that society, so what right do they have to vote for its leadership?

I'm thinking that even if I don't have the right, I may just be able to do a good thing. If I've been given a power to make a difference, I should try to use it as best I can. What do y'all think? Is it morally okay for me to vote?


Oh, one more thing - I happened to stumble on this. Just a curiosity.
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Tenshi



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Tam: That's awesome, sheer awesome.

As for myself, I'm sort of on the fence in this one also. It's not that I don't know, it's that I simply cannot decide.

On the one hand, I dislike McCain's ultra-conservative platform in several areas. Most notable of these are "civil unions". I'm about as hetero as they come, but I would be happy as a clam if I could someday throw rice at some of my GLBT friends. I have quite a few, and they're (generally speaking) ten times as awesome as my hetero friends. Except the "L" portion, but that's probably because I look Uber-Conservative. Razz

Anyway, I dislike Obama's hesitation without a script, and his constant, constant rhetoric about change. I understand that we need change, but it feels like he wants to turn all of America on it's head. I can't agree with that, and don't. There are aspects about this country that I like. I also believe in a slightly more hard-nosed foreign policy approach than "diplomacy in all cases". I guess, in some ways, I still am conservative. Razz

Nader? I love Green, don't get me wrong, but this guy reminds me of Kerry in a lot of ways that scare me.

Did you know there's a Socialist party? I saw a flier for them on campus, it blew my mind. I've never met a socialist I liked when we got to talking politics. Whenever I started making sense about the holes in socialism, I was suddenly branded "capitalist dog" or "fascist pig" or some other wonderfully cold-war/WWII era name..

When it comes time to vote, I'm very tempted to vote for Obama. I'll break my parents' hearts if I ever tell them that (they're die-hard Republicans), but honestly I like Obama. He feels genuine, and he really looks like he believes what he says. When he speaks, you can see the glimmer of hope in his eyes. Whether he's just a silver-tongued rogue, or whether he's the real McCoy, I don't know... but I know that he's a natural leader, and he has a lot of charisma. His political stances are steps in the right direction, and generally speaking Democrats bring our budget back in line (which we SORELY need).

On the Republican side (McCain/Palin), I have my concerns about McCain's health. Palin seems to have the same passion in her eyes as Obama, though it is incredibly worrisome that the Republican party has kept her under such a tight seal for so much of the campaign. What does she have to hide, or what is being hidden for her? I have nothing but respect for her and her family, but they're really trumping up her daughter's pregnancy. There are a lot of teenage mothers these days, and I feel like the Republican party is really drumming up the "change" message too. On the stances, I like some of the economic issues McCain is targeting ("extra" spending included). One of the things that draws me to the Republican party, as always, is gun control. I own several guns, most of my state does. And, like most of my state, I would not voluntarily relinquish those firearms to any government authority. I believe in the right to own firearms, I believe very strongly in that right.

Between the parties, the Democrats have a history (in my lifetime) of bringing the country's finances in line. That's something we DESPERATELY need. I also believe the Democratic party is ten times more likely to okay GLBT civil union/marriage long before any other party (that is likely to win an election). Though, the thing that could really sink a Democratic vote for me is the thing that kept me from wanting Al Gore in office instead of Bush (Lesser of two evils indeed!)... Gun control.

I'll probably decide when I'm standing in the voting booth, to be honest.

Yay for really long posts that, in the end, say nothing! Very Happy Uh, let me jump on the pro-voting bandwagon 'ere...

Most important of all is: VOTE! I don't care who you vote for, so long as your vote is your own decision and not someone else's. Any informed decision about the direction of the country is better than none at all. I say, vote with me or vote against me, just vote!
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unimportant



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tamir wrote:
*takes notes*

Sidenote - I know a few Israeli Americans (American Israelis? Confused) who aren't voting in the elections. Some of them say that since they have no plans to move back to America, it's unfair for them to vote. They're not members of that society, so what right do they have to vote for its leadership?

I'm thinking that even if I don't have the right, I may just be able to do a good thing. If I've been given a power to make a difference, I should try to use it as best I can. What do y'all think? Is it morally okay for me to vote?


Oh, one more thing - I happened to stumble on this. Just a curiosity.


Way I see it Tam, whether or not you plan to live in America shouldn't matter a whole ton in this election. If you saw the debates, and have followed the candidates speeches, Isreal has come up quite a bit. So you can vote even purely on what they've said about that, if you like. I hope that makes sense.


I support Obama, and I'm utterly disheartened that I miss the voting age for the election by all of three-four months, it leaves me literally feeling sick sometimes, how much that cut off date sucks when you're just off the mark. Anyway, I make up for it by being as informed as I can possibly make myself in the time I can devote to it.

The VP situation is such a big deal this time just because Palin is a)questionable in her knowledge about key issues and b) she's the running mate to who could be potentially the oldest first-term president the United States has ever had. Personally, I feel her selection was not in the best interest of the country, and more a ploy to scoop up certain voters, and a reckless ploy at that. Her selection feels like pandering to me, to put it simply.
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Tamir



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fable wrote:
Way I see it Tam, whether or not you plan to live in America shouldn't matter a whole ton in this election. If you saw the debates, and have followed the candidates speeches, Isreal has come up quite a bit. So you can vote even purely on what they've said about that, if you like. I hope that makes sense.

Well, I also know at least one person who'll be voting based only on the candidates' Israel policies, and I'm not sure how right that is either. I mean, that's the only thing that will directly influence me, but that's certainly not the only thing that matters.
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Fable: I'm eighteen on the third, but a friend of mine from grade-school misses the date by less than a week.

But about Palin, even if she was mostly to pander to voters, you can't deny she understands energy, and she's got a good record on controlling spending.
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Squeeself



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tamir wrote:
Well, I also know at least one person who'll be voting based only on the candidates' Israel policies, and I'm not sure how right that is either. I mean, that's the only thing that will directly influence me, but that's certainly not the only thing that matters.


Squee's not gonna get too involved with this thread, as devil's video irks Squee's sensibilities enough that Squee might say things Squee would regret, but Squee will reply to this since it's important. There's absolutely nothing wrong with voting on a single issue, regardless of what it is. If it's important enough to you, then vote on it. Squee'd guess a great majority of Americans vote on a few key issues to themselves, and there's only something wrong with it if you're voting against other issues that are also important to you. Weigh whatever is important to you and vote on it. That's how it works.

Ok, Squee can't help it a little bit. Back in 2000, Squee was pro-McCain and was quite disappointed when he dropped out. Squee's drifted a quite a bit to the left since then, and has been pro-Obama since nearly the beginning. But that said...Squee feels rather betrayed by the fact that McCain is NOT the same candidate he was 8 years ago. Perhaps it was that we really never got to know him back then and he never really changed, or maybe he just got older and all that comes with that, but regardless, Squee wouldn't vote for McCain even if one of the other Democrat candidates got the nomination (none of which Squee liked or would vote for either). Call it a grudge for feeling betrayed, or irrational, but the fact is: Squee doesn't see McCain as a man of integrity anymore.

Again though, Squee isn't pro-Obama because Squee is anti-McCain, so please don't make that mistake. Squee has believed since long before people thought Obama had a chance; similar to the Tin-man, Squee may not agree with all of his actions--just quite a few--but Squee believes Obama has the intellect, personality, energy, and political prowess to be not just a good president, but a great one. And that is as much of Squee's political positions as you'll see during this election on these forums; Squee doesn't feel the need to convince or defend these positions any further.

Squee wanted to avoid this but, too late....Your methods are unlikely to have much success swaying opinion devilman. Do not take this as a personal attack but...you, like so much of the Internet, need to work on your rhetorical skills. It pains my writerly sensibilities reading that and watching that video. Take this as criticism not of your message, but your presentation. Here Squee will be Squee's usual harsh critic: Your audience is wrong, your methods are crude and overtly distasteful, and you are far more likely to dissuade than to persuade with that style. Also, people have an innate annoyance with allegory if it tries to be too manipulative...though yours is just way too confusing. Please, please, please...Stop and read some books on rhetoric, or advertising, or something. You'll be far, far more effective. End of harsh critique.
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