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LHC LHC LHC!
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Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading a ton of the banter going back and forth, and reviewing the science provided by the "opponents" to the LHC, I've come to the conclusion that things are rather well in hand. The details on the science that claims the world will be swallowed into a black hole is all currently new, has not been published in any scientific journal, nor has it been peer reviewed.

I'm not especially concerned. If, as Tam says, Good Mr. Hawking is correct, then we're in for a treat when it comes to particle physics. Not so much in the "world will be swallowed by a black hole" department though.

@Tam: I was psyched about the others, nobody mentioned them on ES though. This one does seem to have attracted much more international attention than the other colliders have, though. I think it has to do with the fact that there are so many vocal doomsday speakers, and the media is giving them a voice.

Though, I seem to recall similar arguments against other colliders...

In any event, I'm stoked to read what gets published about their findings!
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd prefer to find out if Good Mr. Hawking is correct with something a little less than my home planet as the stake really. What happened to the GLAST instrument package anyway; wasn't that meant to be searching for gama ray bursts from evaporating black holes?
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Squeeself



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Squee can add to this discussion (other than the black hole thing destroying the earth is fairly ridiculous as no physicist has found any evidence its dangerous) is the following link:

http://qntm.org/?destroy

Also, this page has a funny tidbit related to LHC:

http://qntm.org/?board

So yes, Geocide has already occurred before the LHC went online, so its impossible for the LHC to produce a second Geocide. No reason to worry.
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Allicat



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol Squee, that was good Smile

Well, it's been turned on and I'm pretty sure I still exist. Although if I did cease to exist how would I register the fact since "I" would not be here to do the registering? Hmmm, begging some philosophical questions here.
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sunshine



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tamir wrote:
Sunny, that is an awesome pic. XD Thanks for linking.



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JackAce



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allicat wrote:
Although if I did cease to exist how would I register the fact since "I" would not be here to do the registering? Hmmm, begging some philosophical questions here.

As in: "If the Earth exploded, and there was no one left alive to hear it, would it make a sound?" Laughing

Or, loosely after Schrödinger: "If the Earth exploded, and there was no one left alive to witness it, would it have exploded at all?" Razz


Shocked


And then, there was this.
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Rolaoi



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't any black-hole created just eat itself?
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Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Rolaoi: Basically, yes. That's why there's no real danger of black holes forming, given that they would evaporate in picoseconds.

@Lope: I wish I could wash my brain. Seriously, just...wash my brain...
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Tinu.



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, well, I don't know anything, so. . .yeah, I'm abandoning this thread now. ^^

(funny links by the way squee)
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Tenshi



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The important thing to remember is that most of the people who are trying to say it'll doom us all are using theoretical physics and mathematics to do so. Established mathematics and physics say that everything will be controlled, if maybe a little bit wild to watch. Safety measures are in place all the same, however.

Should the theoretical physics/mathematics pan out, though, there would be no way that the LHC or any collider with sufficient power to produce dangerous reactions would receive funding. Without funding, they can't continue to operate...

In general, one good thing to remember about any sort of research or science paper is that it's supposed to be impartial. If it seeks to vilify "the establishment" or to cast itself as a "rebellious force with only the people's best interest" and/or "the truth" in mind, chances are they're spinning a story instead of presenting evidence. In fact, in none of the articles I read did I see anything that compelled me to call into question the "Laws of Physics" that have been tried, tested, verified, and re-verified so many times over that I struggle to comprehend...

In general, overly dramatic "science papers" are not so much science, as they are journalism. As one scientist commented, "a glorified blog". Now if they had elaborate algorithms or diagrams, or showed several examples of the mathematics involved, I would be compelled. "Nostradamus predictions that we just recently uncovered!" don't really phase me. If Nostradamus predicted the world would be destroyed by "RAYPOZ" from "Geneva", then I would bet all I own someone would have mentioned it a bit before the month before the LHC went online. Considering it's taken decades for it's construction and planning, and all...

But, I digress. And now for the disclaimer: This post is just my opinion. Every other opinion is valid so long as the opinion is the original of the individual. That is to say, if somebody isn't feeding you the things coming out of your mouth, then you have ever bit as much validity as I do, in believing whatever you believe.
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Keeper of the Siderean Swords

"If by chance some day you're not feeling well, and you should remember some silly thing I've said or done, and it brings back a smile to your face or a chuckle to your heart, then my purpose as your clown has been fulfilled."
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how you can put safety measures in place to control a blackhole, assuming it did go wrong. Just have to hope that Hawking was right and the things evaporate quickly if that event comes up I guess.

Edit: Webcam pics

Linky

Wink
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unimportant



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nem, someone just has a mean sense of humor there Wink


From what I've heard from experts being interviewed, it actually is extremely likely that blackholes will form, just microscopic ones that essentially don't pose a threat so far as we know. Apparently, these microscopic black holes have been created before on earth with no problem. I don't know if this has been brought up yet, I think I missed a few links reading through here.

Really, why I'm more excited than worried though, is the possibility of observing and explaining dark matter. I'd be beside myself if that happened!
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Squeeself



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As was stated on Wired...the worst case scenario for the LHC is that it finds the Higgs boson and...nothing else. What makes the physicists excited is the prospect of finding out something new, possibly dark matter, possibly other stuff. Squee knows that there are a fair amount of people hoping that the LHC doesn't create the Higgs, and instead smashes some pretty major theories in the shins with a sledgehammer. Smile Nothing makes a "real" scientist happier than being wrong. Smile
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Maeniel



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a cute little rap I found that relates. Smile

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7607145.stm
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Allicat



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Aint that the same one that Lope linked to?

Brain is mush. Science comes later.
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