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Willow Theories!
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought they said the Eve matches; that's what I was talking about.
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Sasha Lupine



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Eve, but not nessecarily her descendents. Gaia's is green, but Nanashi's eyes are brown.
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, come to think of it, I think we've all seen Gaia's eve! She went on to get a second career as an actress. Here's one role she's played in recent millennia:



^_^
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Sasha Lupine



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...For some reason, that pic reminds me of Monty Python.
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DawnStarLight



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did she really say Willow isn't Earthsong's Eve? CRAP! Well there goes my theory. But I still think it makes sense.
1. Can touch ES's soulstone (only powerful soulstones/ her Eve could do it. right?)
2. They look the same (not a good way to tell but...)
3. Come on she knew what the animals were on ES and no other animals! (yeah I think that's my best proof.)
4. Earthsong cares/feels that Willow is special and wants to save ehr no matter what.
Well yeah I guess ES would have had to work to make Willow... IDK guess only the Lady knows. sleep/dream creating?

Well... Hey what if someone else created her useing Earthsong's element... That could work... Right?

Okay well my head hurts so I'm going to end my first post on this site. Thanks for reading this (if you did).
BYE! Very Happy
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no, Lady Yates has never confirmed or denied any of our theories, not even my obviously correct one about Willow being the illegitimate daughter of a one-armed river-boat gambler and a plucky but much-beset young lady of good breeding but hard luck whose father gambled her away at cards one fateful night.

I had a detailed explication of this theory -- it had genealogical charts and everything! But sadly all that was lost in the forum crash a year ago. Sigh.

ANY way ... the "Willow is Earthsong's Eve" theory excited a great deal of comment, and some people have argued passionately both for and against it in the past. But Her Ladyship has given us no hint but "MWA HA HA HA HA!!"[1]














[1] That's clearly a reference to the fiendish cackling of the one-armed card sharp as his hired thugs tore his weeping prize-bride from her father's arms and chucked him overboard to spend the remainder of his life ruing his ill-considered bet, and also fighting off alligators with his bare hands. But you all can think exactly what you like. I'll be borne out in the end, just you wait! *mutters and rubs hands*
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TDTC



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always suspected she was drunk... and wandered onto this place. And she lived here the entire time. Go figure.

I dunno, we'll see... maybe she's actually in Bel's group. And turns against them. Mwahaha! *is big on the traitor thing*
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Eee



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. Newbie, here. (timid wave, embarrassed toe scuff)

Would anyone mind if I posted a list of the facts I've noticed about Willow and my interpretation of them? It might get kind of... long...

Eee
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Tyris



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody will mind (that is, after all, what this topic is for)... but expect to have your interpretation dissected, analysed and preserved in formaldehyde.
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Eee



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyris wrote:
Nobody will mind (that is, after all, what this topic is for)... but expect to have your interpretation dissected, analysed and preserved in formaldehyde.


Fair enough.

(cracks knuckles) And here we go. Some facts I've noticed, and thoughts I've had, on everyone's favorite mystery girl.


Willow's arrival. I gather the way things work in the ES universe is that, when a Soulstone forms, Earthsong is instantly aware of it via the Siderean throne no matter where in the universe it is, and is able to reach out and pull the Soulstone bearer to her surface before things go boom. (Oddly, it appears Beluosus has similar powers, since he was able to steal some Soulstone bearers before ES could get to them. I'm really curious as to how he did that. And how he managed to move his core - and his surviving children, if any, and any captured Soulstone bearers he might have had at the time - from his previous planetary location to Earthsong's moon and then surface. His story should be interesting.) But getting back to Earthsong and Willow: When she teleports in the Soulstone bearer I don't think Earthsong pays attention to the bearer's direction, or distance. And given the vastness of the universe, why should she? But I rather think she'd notice if a Soulstone were to suddenly manifest directly on her surface. It'd probably be difficult to ignore. Like a firecracker going off by your ear instead of at a distance. Yet in nothing Earthsong said at the time, or has said since, is there the slightest hint that Willow's arrival was anything unusual. That means Willow has a Soulstone (because otherwise ES wouldn't have noticed her (and besides ES actually says that she does. The only way around that if ES is mistaken or lying)), that she's not an Eve unless she's an Eve with a Soulstone, and that she's probably not Earthsong's inadvertantly created Eve or some creation of Beluosus unless she was moved off-world before her Soulstone formed. Doesn't help with what she is; just what she may not be.

Earthsong knew Willow was female right away. Either that was as a result of teleporting her, or she 'saw' Willow as she was lying there under the amethyst tree. The latter might make more sense; we have seen after all that ES is aware of a good deal of what's happening on her surface, even when it's beyond the line of sight of her avatar. When Beluosus murdered the emmissaries and tossed their bodies aside, for instance, or Richard's defeat. (This does raise the question of why she wasn't able to locate Willow after Tristram captured her. But maybe Earthsong needs living animals or plants to 'see' through, and there weren't any of those down in Tristram's caves. And from the looks of it, Beluosus has killed everything for miles around his core/headquarters.) However, if Earthsong WAS watching Willow from the moment she arrived, it would seem to rule out the possibility of Willow being an unknowing substitute or Trojan Horse sent by Beluosus, Tengu's conspiracy theories to the contrary.

Willow 'heard' ES directing Nanashi to collect her when she first arrived on Earthsong. To judge from Nanashi's shock when Willow mentioned that, that's something that's never happened before. Especially since Willow was physically far outside of ES' telepathic range. This might suggest that Willow is in some way telepathic herself. Except she's never shown the ability to pick up on mental messages not meant for her or generally broadcast, since. And we know Earthsong has sent out powerful telepathic signals after that because she said at the Haven's Guard meeting discussing Willow that she had called out to her siblings to see if any of them had information. But Willow did not hear those calls. I don't know what it means, but I'm sure it means something.
(And as an aside, I find it interesting that while Sage and Oliblish responded to Earthsong's request, if only to tell her they knew nothing, "we are all eternally in your debt" (with downcast eyes) Gaia didn't get back to her at all. THAT may mean something, too.)

Willow's outfit. I don't know, if she were an Eve I'd expect her to be nude, or in fig leaves, not what appears to be a simplified Romantic Heroine costume. Of manufactured or woven material. That suggests she comes from a civilization of at least some cultural, and techological or magical, advancement..
The dress DOES look good , though.

Willow has no remnant. None. The Guard's theory is that whatever happened to Willow to cause her Soulstone to form was so traumatic that she's blanked out the memory. The trouble with that is, that much psychological damage isn't something you should recover from instantly; there'd be physical and mental effects (shock, confusion, trembling, terror, rapid heart rate, etc, etc) for some time afterwards. Yet we saw Willow within seconds of her Soulstone formation (assuming that teleportation to Earthsong is instantaenous), and she wasn't upset in the slightest. In fact, she was sleeping. Trauma would seem to be out. (On the other hand, according to Sage it takes a wave of powerful emotion to cause a Soulstone to crystalize, and it would seem unlikely that Willow would fall asleep after something like THAT, either. Perhaps a dream?)
Unless she was unconscious, not sleeping. Rather an odd form of unconsciousness, if she could wake up enough to have 'heard' Earthsong, only to then pass out again. But maybe.
And it's not just her remnant: Willow does not appear to have ANY memories of her life before she woke up on Earthsong. Tengu can remember the purple rats that lived under the dew reservoirs on her homeworld and that the stars are supposed to be the spirits of her ancestors, Felucca came up with what I assume was a home proverb ("like a swarg on a mugluckt"), and Gwendolyn knows the great value her society places on a name. Willow? All she's got is "Griffin", and THAT'S for an animal native to Earthsong and maybe nowhere else. No mere trauma could account for such comprehensive amnesia. It would be more logical to assume that either something is artificially repressing all her memories, or that there is simply nothing there for Willow to remember.

Willow starts out not in good physical shape. Walking for several hours really tired her, running after Felucca left her short of breath. It's not much of a fact, but it is worthy of note.

Willow can touch Earthsong's manifest stone. I'm not entirely clear on this, should it have been impossible for her to do that because the amount of energy in the stone should have incinerated her instantly, or because it should have been like a leaf trying to make its way against a hurricane force wind? If the former, it would seem irresponsible of Earthsong not to have manifested before Willow got close enough to touch it, intentionally or by accident. Either way, that Willow CAN touch it seems to indicate that she has a Sidera Soulstone, a planetary level core, or a Soulstone power that allows such things. Or that something else is going on.

Earthsong beamed the images of the Planetary Council and Beluosus' invasion directly into Willow's mind. And, it seems, encountered no mental screens, no unexpected demons, no powers, nothing. It would appear that mentally, Willow is nothing exceptional.

Nobody recognizes Willow's species. Since I imagine there are new planets creating children on a fairly regular basis ("regular basis" in this case being on a universal time scale and consisting of from hundreds of thousands to millions of years) and/or having their first Soulstone form, I doubt this would have been a big thing if it hadn't been for Willow's other oddities. Of course it's also possible nobody's seen anything like Willow before because, before Willow, there WAS nothing like her, or at least not for a very very long time. I do wonder who the mysterious "others" were that Nanashi, Felucca, and Zaebos were on their way to see before Willow got herself kidnapped, and why they thought they might know anything about Willow...

When Willow first met Zaebos, the big guy had a ball of fire burning over one finger to illuminate things in the library. Willow looked into the flames and appeared to be going into a trance, only to snap out of it a few moments later when Zaebos extinguished the fireball. I've checked and Willow hasn't gotten close to a fire since. I'm REALLY curious about what would have happened had Zaebos kept that fireball burning a little longer, or if Willow were exposed to a fire at close range again.

Willow could hear the rustle of Nanashi's clothing as the big N invisibly followed Willow around her first day in Haven. Either Nanashi is a bit noisier than she thinks she is (and the others aren't telling her about it), or Willow has extremely acute hearing (no sign of that since, however), or Willow somehow has the power to see through subterfuge (in which case she should have seen through Skogul), or Willow has ESP (hmm), or something else was going on. I note Nanashi hasn't tried that on Willow again, though.

Willow knows how to read and write. In English. And speaks English, too. At first I thought it might be a clue, but upon reflection I think it may be more a side effect of the teleportation to Earthsong built in by the Sidera. After all, if you are mixing the races of hundreds of worlds, you'll want them able to communicate with each other, and imprinting a common language might be a good idea. Either that or it's like Star Trek and everyone speaks English naturally. Even Nanashi, who's Japanese. I'll consider this a "it's just a TV show and you really should relax" moment, and move on.

Willow seems to have an amazing ability to connect with people. Driven Nanashi, bitter Gwendolyn, even Tristram, she was able to form bonds with all of them. Although Nanashi seems to put her duty to Earthsong, and her need to maintain a stoic mien, ahead of showing any softer feelings she might have towards Willow. I doubt this capacity of Willow has any bearing on her origion, but it may be part of her Soulstone power. Or not.
I wonder how she's going to do with Skogul.

Griffins. Willow knew what a griffin was. I really have nothing to say about this, except to wonder why nobody thought to ask Earthsong where she got the idea of Griffins from and if she copied them from some other world. I thought Zaebos made a serious mistake at this point, too. Instead of dragging Willow back to the library and plying her with beastiaries of various worlds, he should have let her continue the tour and found out if she recognized any other of ES' creatures. It would have provided more information than keying off of one instance of recognation. In fact I have a lot of objections to the Guard's efforts to figure out Willow, in general. Obviously not telling her what they were up to was a serious mistake and has lead to major problems. But also, if they'd gotten Willow's cooperation, there are several things they might have found out. Like, does Willow have a belly button? What would happen if Nanashi touched Willow with the Sidera swords, or tried using Siderean power on her? What if Willow stared into Zaebos' fireball again? So many lost opportunities...

When Tristram captured Willow, he drained her energy until she passed out. There was apparently nothing unusual about either the quality or quantity of that energy; at least Tristram didn't act like there was. Willow does not appear to be anything exceptional physically, either.

Aaand that's all I've got, so far. I'll keep looking. And thinking.

(One thing I DO wonder about, although it has nothing directly to do with Willow's origins - maybe - is, why this whole Earthsong/Beluosus war is being allowed to happen, anyway. I can see that the other planets might not be able to interfere, it all taking place so far from even the closest of them and with no indication that planets can send their powers over long distances. But from what we've seen, the Sidera should be able to flick Beluosus off like a booger, or give Earthsong the means to do it. That they've limited their interference so far to just transforming Nanashi and giving her the Siderean swords suggests something more is going on than we can see, something to warrant all this pain, destruction, and death.
I wonder what it is.)
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Eee was not kidding about the long part. O_O;
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Maeniel



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we, like, index this and make it official? This is probably the best, most concise and factual list of Things We Know (About Willow).

Eee wrote:
When Beluosus murdered the emmissaries and tossed their bodies aside, for instance, or Richard's defeat. (This does raise the question of why she wasn't able to locate Willow after Tristram captured her. But maybe Earthsong needs living animals or plants to 'see' through, and there weren't any of those down in Tristram's caves. And from the looks of it, Beluosus has killed everything for miles around his core/headquarters.)


We know that Beluosus can't see anything under Earthsong's surface. Perhaps this holds true for Earthsong as well? But then, I don't think she can see in the Badlands--otherwise, she'd have attacked long ago. Your living animals/plants theory may be right.
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YatesOfYore
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It IS incredibly thorough... but not ENTIRELY accurate in some of it's assumptions/interpretations.


But I can't tell you what or I'd be giving stuff away!


(Don't worry, we'll hash it all out in detail after the revelation comes about - well... as much as I can without giving even MORE future stuffs away)
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Eee



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinalles wrote:
Wow, Eee was not kidding about the long part. O_O;


I do tend to get carried away at times...


Maeniel wrote:
Can we, like, index this and make it official? This is probably the best, most concise and factual list of Things We Know (About Willow)..


I'd be honored!


LadyYates wrote:
It IS incredibly thorough... but not ENTIRELY accurate in some of it's assumptions/interpretations.


I am overwhelmed with fannish glee that the Lady noitices and praises my efforts, and look forward eagerly to finding out what I got wrong!

(It's the 'speaks English' bit, isn't it? That was probably the GREAT, SECRET crux of the WHOLE STORY and I blew it off as a "smile, nod, move on" bit. I'm such a YUTZ!! (clutches head, sinks beneath table in shame)
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eee wrote:
(It's the 'speaks English' bit, isn't it? That was probably the GREAT, SECRET crux of the WHOLE STORY and I blew it off as a "smile, nod, move on" bit. I'm such a YUTZ!! (clutches head, sinks beneath table in shame)

If that's a clue... we've got a subversion of the Traslation Convention, which cool as that would be, I'm highly skeptical.[/quote]
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