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Hasidic protests

 
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Hasidic protests Reply with quote

http://www.ngohq.com/news/16800-hasidic-jews-protest-at-intels-factory.html

Quote:
Intel's factory in Jerusalem has drawn a lot of attention lately. The Hasidic Jewish population that lives in the Jerusalem area is unhappy with the fact that the factory is operating on Saturday, also known as The Sabbath [the Jewish day of rest]. A protest took place during the weekend with many protestors rioting in front of the factory, throwing stones and using violence against Israeli journalists and photographers. In the past weeks, there have been similar protests by rioters at other places of business for the same reason.

Intel employs around to 6,500 people in Israel. "We at Intel Israel are operating in accordance with our business needs and in accordance with the law." said Intel Israel spokesman Koby Bahar.


How odd. I can understand them not wanting to work on a Saturday, but it seems a bit odd to protest others doing so. I think maybe I'm missing something....
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DarkwingPsycho



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That does seem a bit overboard.
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Miho



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Says protest took place during the weekend?
Does that mean Saturday?
I find this.... contradictory perhaps?
Just the fact that Sabbath is a day of rest and peace.
Not really a day to be chucking stones.
Anywho, yes. Bit extreme.
Annnd besides, what good did persecuting people ever do?
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Tyris



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miho wrote:
Not really a day to be chucking stones.

Awww... not even at adulteresses?
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Tinu.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they were protesting ON Sabbath.

And it's the principle of the thing, really. like back in the US when nothing was open on sundays. People had a fit when that rule started slipping. It's meant to be a day of rest, religiously - even if you don't follow the religious majority, you're expected to conform to it's rules. Hasidics are super conservative too, aren't they?

Where're tam and Asa when you need em? ^^
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Asa



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I don't live in Israel, I'm not going to say anything substantial, and I'll leave it for Tam as the native to attempt an explanation. I will say that I sort of understand what they mean, but I would not have been in the crowd, and I don't think that was the right way to convey their ideas.
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Tamir



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohai its me ur israeli naybur tam


Let me start with the fact that I don't approve of the ultra-religious movement very much. Their goals are nice in theory, but I feel that in practice they violate the very things they stand for. Rock-throwing is a great example of that... there aren't many who do it, but it goes against many of Judiasm's principles. I don't quite understand it, myself.

Also, the protest did take place on Saturday. Kind of odd, I know.

That said, don't get the idea that ultra-religious Jews are something terrible. Most of them are quite peaceful, and their communities are responsible for much of the volunteer work in Israel. But the few of them who don't behave give the whole movement a bad name, and the press is pretty vicious towards them, often exaggerating their misdeeds.

The protest isn't as ridiculous as it sounds... these people want to live in a place that works by the rules of Judaism, which isn't so ridiculous when you keep in mind that Israel is a Jewish country. Fact is, Israel wants to be both a Jewish and a democratic country, and those two are often in conflict. So the ultra-religious want the country to lean towards being Jewish and following Jewish laws, and the nonreligious want the country to lean towards democracy and letting everyone live the way they want to.

It's also important to remember how small Israel is. If each group had their own city or little area, this would be much less of a problem. But the fact is, (using this case as an example,) both groups are stuffed into the confines of the small city of Jerusalem. So either one group gets their way, or the other does. Either there's Sabbath peace and quiet or there are stores and workplaces open. You can't really give both what they want.


Long story short - I could go into a whole shpiel about what I think is wrong with ultra-orthodox Judaism, but they aren't really so bad as they're made out to be.
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Tinalles
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not really a Jewish thing, either. Every organized religion has groups of extremists.

There are ultra-conservative Hindus in India who occasionally do things like stone local Muslims, or even other Hindus (especially ones who do things like marry outside their caste). There are ultra-conservative Christians of every denomination, all of whom are convinced that everybody else is going to burn in hell. We're all familiar with Muslim radicals, they've been in the news a lot in the last decade. If I understand correctly, ultra-conservative Shintoists played a big role in pushing Japan into attacking the U.S. during World War II. Though in that case the religion and the nationalism were pretty thoroughly intertwined, and it's hard to tell where one leaves off and the other picks up.

I must confess, I've never heard of an ultra-conservative Buddhist, but I bet you could dig some up somewhere if you looked hard enough.

The interesting thing about extremists is that they tend to be much more like other extremists than they do like mainstream members of their own groups. The insistence on rigorous adherence to the One True Way (whatever way that happens to be) doesn't leave a lot of room for compromise or adjustment. And extremist movements have a strong tendency to attract people with authoritarian personalities, who like being told what to do, or like telling other people what to do. Or in some cases, both.

I highly recommend Bob Altemeyer's book on that subject, The Authoritarians. He's a Canadian psychologist who spent his entire academic career studying authoritarianism. When he retired a few years ago he wrote that book (for a general audience) and decided to distribute it as a PDF file on the web for free so more people might read it. I've got a printed copy.
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Tenshi



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buddhist Extremists:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3574672.ece
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88470340

Extremists happen in every ideology, even the non-religious. You can find this in "exclusively scientific" minds as well (though you could, and I do, consider atheism a religion). It, like Tinman mentions, is more a function of the individual than the religion. Certain people entertain the notion that they, and they alone, are in the moral right. Everyone else is wrong, wrong to the point that they must be remedied either by re-education or... more extreme measures. In my experience, many of them skip the step of trying to help others learn, and simply try to throw them under the bus (as it were).

As for the topic at hand, I understand their movement though do not agree with it. After all, Israel is the one truly Jewish country in the world, isn't it? It wouldn't be a long stretch to see any attempts to change the country to a more "open to the world" mode of operation as a sort of attack on that religious significance. Unfortunately, this seems to be the wrong way to go about protesting it.

Violent protests have, to my memory of history, never done a great deal to halt progress. The far better method, I feel, is through peaceful protests and political manipulation. Educate the population as to the why, either inspire politicians or train someone to become one to lead the country in the how, and then spread your message with compassion and generosity. In so doing, you will find the who.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just some kid in podunk. Wink
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thespaceinvader



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fairly sure ultra-conservative buddhists do exist, however, the worst i'm aware of one having done is burn himself alive in protest at the persecution of other buddhists by his government. A philosophy (calling buddhism a religion is iffy in itself) which teaches the things that buddhism does, doesn't tend to lead to extremism, particularly not against others.
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YatesOfYore
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two fundamental beliefs of Christianity are love thy god and love thy neighbour as thyself. And yet there are any number of belligerent and intolerant Christians out there. The taught principles and the social customs adhered to by the followers of any religion don't always match up. That's not an excuse, just an explanation.

Anyhow, my point is that just because the Buddhist beliefs are of a rather calm nature, it doesn't mean that you can't have Buddhists who aren't of that nature themselves...

... I have no examples of this though, I have to admit. I'm just talking in principle.




It's too bad that it's the extremists of any religion that become the face of that religion. It's only natural - they certainly do call attention to themselves - but it's not fair to the more level-headed members. Anyone ever seen "Inherit the Wind"? Clarence Darrow FTW.
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