[Miho]

So I wanna try something here. I wanna try to have a religious discussion here on the forum, because I know many of us stem from different religions and beliefs, I mean, you don't have to be religious to have an opinion about any of this stuff. I myself have been through many religions and stages in my life and so I have a pretty broad understanding about things.

I want this to be a discussion in which we can discuss. No arguing. No calling people loons for what they believe and no damning them to hell. Just, no. I believe here we're all pretty understanding of each other here and we all respect each other to be civilized when it comes to such type of discussion. This is a touchy subject, I know that, so I would like to ask the admins to keep an eye especially it things get out of hand, I really don't foresee that with this group, but still we never know.

Now. Like I said, i just want this be a place where we can share each our beliefs. If you don't feel comfortable posting something, if you feel even the slightest sliver of doubt, well then don't. Make sure that what you post, you're okay with sharing. Mmkay? Okay.

I kinda also want this to be a place where we can ask question about said religious beliefs or just beliefs in general and please, if someone words something that slightly upsets you, don't fly off the handle, maybe that person doesn't realize that perhaps they are being offensive. Be kind, take a breath, explain that their wording bothers you and why it does and try to answer. I mean, you can chose not to. Don't feel obligated to, this stuff is very personal, I realize that and it can be very sensitive, so lets try to do this.



Alright. So, I have a friend who is Catholic, as well as theologian, and so he likes to learn about all sorts of religion. Recently he asked me about what my religion believes when it comes to the kingdom of heaven. I went to a class today about the Old testament and I asked my teacher. He gave me a general shpill about what the LDS belive the kingdom of heaven is. He told me that right now the kingdom of heaven can be considered the earth where we are now, because that's where the majority of Christ's teaching are being taught. For now, we are working to help build it and junk like that. He also told me that in time of course that the Kingdom of Heaven will... change? I suppose, I don't if that's the right word... That it will no longer be on this earth and... hmmm... crapit. I forgot most of it. I'mma gonna have to ask him again. Poop...

Anywho, I was just wondering, what do other's believe when it comes to the Kingdom of God or Heaven? Is it a set place? Is it the people? What is it?
_________________
I can't remember....oh *le sigh*

[Tinu.]

I've heard, and been taught that answer before. Personally though, I always thought of it as a place. As "The kingdom of heaven" actually being Heaven - a place you don't go until you die. However, I've also thought of it as being wherever God is -"physically" anyways. Basically, I've always considered the kingdom as a place we can't get to just yet. I know that this doesn't exactly agree with the New testament, but it's just a belief I've held since I was little, and I've never really thought about it.

I've heard it referred to as the church, or the people who believe in God, as well, but I've always thought there were too many inconsistencies in belief systems for it to comprise something that is supposed to be holy. Basically, the world seems too messed up to me to contain the kingdom.

Though, as I said, I never gave terribly much thought to what scripture said concerning it and what I perceived.
_________________
Keeper of Gaia and all the books on Earthsong

"If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing it is stupid."
~Einstein

[YatesOfYore]

With regards to the LDS definition of "Kingdom of Heaven/God":

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/k/7

(I did have it all copied and pasted here, but it was a big goobledygook of scripture links, etc. so just click ye old link there)

But in essence, it's the people/organization of the church for the moment and during the Millennium it'll become a political and ecclesiastical "kingdom".


***********

In general:
Back in the days of Forum 1.0, we had a religion thread which was very civil and a great read. I'm quite certain that any discussion here in this thread will be much the same. *gives anyone who considers being a pooper in this thread the skunk-eye*
_________________
Keeper of Nanashi's Vambraces and the Amethyst Trees.

PS: Don't panic! I changed my username - I'm not an impostor!

[Ravenna]

Hmmm... As I understood it as a child, it was a multi-tasking term that could include:

- your religious community in a wider sense
- the concept of Heaven as a place and as a kingdom

So it can be both, it just depends on your own interpretation.
_________________
Bernard [about the job]: The pay's not great, but the work is hard.
~ Black Books ~

[Asa]

Well, representing the other side of the spectrum...

Jews believe that Heaven is a spiritual realm beyond the physical, where dwells G-d and the angels and unborn souls.

Incidentally, we don't have a concept of Hell. When a person dies his soul goes through eleven months of what can best be termed purgatory, where he regrets all of the sins he didn't repent for while alive (the thought is that there's a maximum of twelve, but since we don't like to claim anyone was wicked enough to need all twelve months, we stop counting at eleven). Then his soul is pure and righteous, and it merits to become close to and dwell G-d in heaven.


An extremely condensed, probably inaccurate description, but that's what I can remember. If you want more information, go to Jewish Afterlife Beliefs, Questions About G-d, and other questions about Judaism. Check out the related articles at the bottom of the page for even more info.
_________________
Self-styled Forum Grandmother, because I hand out nicknames and hugs whether you want them or not. ^_^

Keeper of the Library and the Gateway to Haven

Nem: "It's the sort of face you just know is getting ready to poke you with something sharp."
BS: "...then insist you eat a brownie."
__________________
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this and all is mended...
Give me your hands if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.

[Nem]

The thing that's resonated most closely with Nem from religion has been this

Tao Te Ching
道德經

Although that makes very few metaphysical claims about an afterlife as such. Some people have called it the counterpart to The Art of War; how to rule a nation rather than how to conquer one - but it contains some interesting philosophy even if you're not dreadfully interested in rulling anything. Probably one of the most influential books of Nem's youth.

Whether you think it qualifies as a religion or not I guess depends on what you think a religion is, it has certainly been influential in a lot of Taoist styles of religion though ^_^
_________________
Never forget,
We stroll along the roof of hell
Gazing at flowers.
- Issa

[Wren]

I had a less structured religious upbringing than what it seems like some of you guys had. Basically, the people closest to me were not particularly religious, and I ended up going to my nanny's church more often than any other. I don't have many religious ultimates, because nothing in that section of my life growing up was treated as the absolute truth. Most of my ideas came from discussions, and though pretty much everyone was Christian, which sect varied, and there were some agnostics.

What I've always thought of as heaven is where whatever part of you that is not completely connected to your body goes when you die, assuming you're good. I usually refer to this as the soul, but my idea of a soul seems to differ from other people's. I think of us as having a physical body, and beyond that magic, spirit, and essence of self (which is what others might refer to as a soul, just for added confusion). Of those three, I'm not sure which stay and which leave, or if they do leave in the sense that word conveys. I think you are with Him, Her, or Them, though the place, the being behind the pronoun, and the you may not be exactly what one would expect.

Just on the subject of Hell, I don't think it exists as in fire and brimstone. Whether it exists at all is something I'm still discussing with the groups I mentioned at the beginning, and also whether it is worse than just popping out of existence. (I recognize those aren't the only two options, it's just a topic we discuss.)
_________________
Dubbed "Fish" by Asa. Wren->Fish
~Keeper of Willow's Jedi cloak and Tristram's smirk.~

GENERATION 19: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

[Claen'tor]

I am somewhat of the Deist plane of thought, wherein there is a Creator, but its hand was long removed before we came into being. As for Heaven and Hell, I'd rather not disclose my full thoughts upon them, aside from that the Piers Anthony Incarnations Of Immortality has some interesting concepts that are similar to how I see the locales stated within the series.

As for my thoughts upon religion in general, there was a time when I would have said the practicing of religion is farcical, and at most time periods, including our own Information Age, I would be correct concerning the majority of people involved in religion. The farcical nature of religion would be given life by the human desire to find explanation, starting with the first person who thought of a great mystical being that they'd never seen having some sort of effect on some aspect of their lives. It grew increasingly farcical as time wore on, to the point where it has been for some thousands of years, e.g. religious wars (and other kinds of wars that are disguised by religion). With science's thrust into the limelight, however, the beliefs which seemed absolute were shattered by discovery after discovery, those of which that were able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that these occurrences of wonder, or even completely ordinary ones, were merely products of some sort of natural/induced phenomena. In this, science has solved many mysteries, only to unlock even more, at an exponential rate, even. To sum up that, faith cannot hold in the face of evidence, unless one is blinded by it (e.g. zealotry).

Now, the reason(s) why I can no longer generally (and obtusely) refer to religion as farcical have many reasons behind them. One, not everyone involved in religion is a con artist, or easily conned into a belief, but have a genuine belief as they have personally interpreted it, rather than how someone else has for them. Pastors and their religious equivalents can be considered in neutral ground, as some are merely stage performers, and some are seized by belief in a way that they wish to share (although those that believe are sometimes manipulated by the performers). Two, religion provides one of many common grounds on which people are able to meet, and interact regularly in a friendly and open setting of like minds. From a societal standpoint, this is one of the best things that religion brings to the table. It also provides a refuge for those who feel that they have lost their way in life, and need a supporting group/belief to help them feel whole.

In closing, I now refer to it as farcical in relation to me. However, if another person sees differently, I do not see them or how they believe as the farce, only why (though I'll admit Christianity as a whole gives me a hard time taking it seriously).

And =O, The Art of War is one of my favourite books (Or was it The Five Rings? Edit: Both of them are excellent books, though I favour Musashi's The Five Rings). Perhaps I shall pick up a copy of what could be considered the counterpart.

Now Playing: Coheed And Cambria - Apollo II: The Telling Truth

This be Claen'tor, signing off.
_________________
Red is my colour. I live for it. Though it wears horribly on me. D;

I like to post my music. It's a habit. Be nice. ;_;

'People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.'
-Soren Kierkegaard

Dubbed Clan by Asa
Claen'tor = Claen = Clan

[Rechaana]

I've always thought of the Kingdom of Heaven as being, well, the afterlife. I was never taught much about how to get to the Kingdom of Heaven, mostly because my church was more concerned about the nature of the Kingdom. The defining characteristic of Heaven to me is that it is a place of unexpressable closeness with God. Yes, God is present in all things, but I was always taught that we as a race tend to reject God through worldly urges. The Kingdom of Heaven would be a place where all barriers are lifted, and man and God come together.

As for hell....well, that was a topic rarely discussed in my church, at least from the pulpit. It was probably due to the fact that we had universal salvationists and brimstone believers under the same roof.
_________________
"Moral excellence comes about as a result of habit. We become just by doing just acts, temperate by doing temperate acts, brave by doing brave acts."
-Aristotle

Dubbed Rachel by Asa
rechaana = Rech = Rach = Rachel

[Jovey4]

Wow, I was just about to jump into this topic when I realized my beliefs were summed up already within the first three posts! That was a bit of a surprise.
_________________
Dubbed Joyvin by Asa
Jovey4 = Jov = Joy = Joyvin
----------------------------------------
Biding my time until they call my name,
then two years I'll serve out there to proclaim.
>D&C 75:14<

[thespaceinvader]

[spawnofjaws]

**covers head and sneaks faaaaar away**
Somehow religious "discussions" always seem to turn into some hatefest....
D: at least, the ones I witness...

yeah, you believe what you believe, 'just leave me be!

If anyone wants to know, Thebes, Nu, Usa and Tamir all know what I believe....
**runs**
_________________
Hoffman icon courtesy of my very good friend, Isaymakebelieve, on LJ, check her out! http://community.livejournal.com/isaymakebelieve/
In my brain, I'm someone famous AND important!
Dubbed 'Egg' by ASA, but also responds to "spegg"...
Keeper of Oliblish and Teh Poodle Stick....
[/url]

[Miho]

Hmm...

well I have yet another question for y'all.

What about living prophets? Or prophets in general.

The LDS religion believes that we do have a living prophet here on the earth that is given revelation from God and he passes that down to us. That's where we get the Word of Wisdom. We also believe in that the word of the living prophet holds more weight than the standard works, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Bible, and Doctrine and Covenants. There's a story often times told about Brigham Young testifying about the living prophet, he said, "“There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now, when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me.”


Anywho, restating the question, prophet? Does your specific religion believe in such a thing? If so, what's the prophets role? Do you even believe anyone can even be a prophet? To you what does propeht mean?
_________________
I can't remember....oh *le sigh*

[Squeeself]

[Tinu.]

My particular denominations believes in prophets - though some denominations of Christianity does not. For us it's seen simply as a gift of the Holy Spirit. Something that anyone, in theory, can do - though some are more adept at it than others. We don't exalt them, it's just seen as something normal in my church, like speaking in tongues. We still value the biblical prophets highly, and believe that what they say is still relevant, and that God can still speak through it.

Though, can I ask what you mean by a "living prophet?" Is there an official prophet for LDS?
_________________
Keeper of Gaia and all the books on Earthsong

"If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing it is stupid."
~Einstein