FAQ Memberlist Usergroups Register Log in
Profile Log in to check your private messages Search

Beauty Distorted.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> General Discussion
Author Message
Miho



Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Location: Wouldn't you like to know.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Beauty Distorted. Reply with quote

I think every girl AND boy needs to watch this.
I know I coulda posted it in the video thread, but I think it warrants a thread unto itself.
Because, wow.
If we want to be considered "pretty" by the rest of the world you need to live up to Model A and if you're only as pretty as model B, your nothing. When in reality, those models don't even look like themselves.
It's remarkable how much can be done nowadays:
Evolution
_________________
I can't remember....oh *le sigh*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The urge to make one pretty is inherently an urge to distort what is at the time that urge comes about. To make; to alter the reality of a thing. Whether it's attained with makeup, surgery, computer programs or some combination thereof is really irrespective in my mind compared to the intent to deceive - there are always going to be people out there who are willing to go to extremes in order to do so and people who are not.

None of us really look like ourselves*, we look like the effects of our image modifying urges as assessed against cultural standards - and those image modifying urges increase those cultural standards, like a resonant feedback loop between a speaker and a microphone.

The interesting thing here is that people are essentially complaining that it's unfair that they can't be beautiful; but of course it was never the case that everyone could be beautiful in the first place - whether by separations of wealth, genetic disposition, lifestyle choice, or culture - beauty has always been an exclusive ideal. Some people are going to be seen as ugly, the questions are ones of whom and how many.

Of course the other interesting thing is like the feedback loop between a microphone and a speaker the more people back off with it the less the effect. So in a sense I find it rather disingenuous of all these people who complain about the beauty standard and then go out and conform to it. It’s like complaining about pollution while driving a tank to work.

Not that, all that said, I think the situation is as serious as people make it out to be; mainly because the standard shown there is impossible for most people to conform to. If you see someone like that just walking down the street do you honestly think ‘beautiful’ or do a host of slightly less complimentary slogans fly through your mind? I know in my case the latter is more likely to be true.

*Well, that really depends upon whether you view humans as anything more complex that the interactions of value systems I suppose. The claim that we don't look like ourselves could be a claim that our image doesn't betray the entirety of our identity - but that's just trivially true in the context of the discussion.

Of course the other view I suppose assumes that there is some image of ourselves that does look like ourselves - but that's not exactly true in that sense either, I am not my surface appearance.

Uh, unless you're looking at my brain and have an understanding of the chemical exchanges and so on I guess. But please don't; I kinda like my brain being non-visible ^_^
_________________
Never forget,
We stroll along the roof of hell
Gazing at flowers.
- Issa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Miho



Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Location: Wouldn't you like to know.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like nem.
He makes me think.
Hmmmm.
_________________
I can't remember....oh *le sigh*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
spawnofjaws



Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 559
Location: North Carolina! And proud of it...!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen that video proably a hundred times, and it still makes me feel the same.....Smile
have you seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epOg1nWJ4T8?
_________________
Hoffman icon courtesy of my very good friend, Isaymakebelieve, on LJ, check her out! http://community.livejournal.com/isaymakebelieve/
In my brain, I'm someone famous AND important!
Dubbed 'Egg' by ASA, but also responds to "spegg"...
Keeper of Oliblish and Teh Poodle Stick....
[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Asa



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 3538
Location: Grammar Police HQ. Watch your language, I'm armed with the NYTimes Style Book AND Strunk and White!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, and how about this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV8JardV74w&NR=1

Quote:
If you see someone like that just walking down the street do you honestly think ‘beautiful’ or do a host of slightly less complimentary slogans fly through your mind? I know in my case the latter is more likely to be true.

Nem, could this be because you're cynical? If I see an attractive person on the street, I do think, "Wow, she's pretty." Then I start to analyze lines and shadows, of course, but first instinct is appreciation of beauty.
_________________
Self-styled Forum Grandmother, because I hand out nicknames and hugs whether you want them or not. ^_^

Keeper of the Library and the Gateway to Haven

Nem: "It's the sort of face you just know is getting ready to poke you with something sharp."
BS: "...then insist you eat a brownie."
__________________
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this and all is mended...
Give me your hands if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
theBSDude



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 1800
Location: The boring part of Washington

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh. I usually think like Nem. I'm pretty cynical too, though.
_________________
...In accordance with the prophesy.

TheBSDude, dubbed 'BS' by Asa and nicknamed 'Thebes.'
Keeper of the Tristam, The Amazing Non-Emo Vampire!(tm) and a Massive List of Webcomics.

"I'm like a ninja with no hopes or dreams." --Wally of Dilbert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
spawnofjaws



Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 559
Location: North Carolina! And proud of it...!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to dissagree with Nem and Thebes. I know for a fact that I am attractive or at least pretty to pretty much everyone I know.
I also like to stroke my ego, so....
look! it's me and my bro!
http://nevi.deviantart.com/art/hans-and-gret-140269345
I love my little snot-nosed brat!
Also, I think my brother is probably good-looking, too...
_________________
Hoffman icon courtesy of my very good friend, Isaymakebelieve, on LJ, check her out! http://community.livejournal.com/isaymakebelieve/
In my brain, I'm someone famous AND important!
Dubbed 'Egg' by ASA, but also responds to "spegg"...
Keeper of Oliblish and Teh Poodle Stick....
[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asa wrote:
Nem, could this be because you're cynical? If I see an attractive person on the street, I do think, "Wow, she's pretty." Then I start to analyze lines and shadows, of course, but first instinct is appreciation of beauty.


spawnofjaws wrote:
I have to dissagree with Nem and Thebes. I know for a fact that I am attractive or at least pretty to pretty much everyone I know.
I also like to stroke my ego, so....
look! it's me and my bro!
http://nevi.deviantart.com/art/hans-and-gret-140269345
I love my little snot-nosed brat!
Also, I think my brother is probably good-looking, too...


Interesting; also not what I said however.

Me wrote:
Not that, all that said, I think the situation is as serious as people make it out to be; mainly because the standard shown there is impossible for most people to conform to.

(Emphasis added)

The overly-made-up commercialised look; like they've just picked their face out of a magazine complete with the portable lighting setup, over saturated tones, and so on. That standard just doesn’t turn up outside of very specific circumstance – and yet people are still thought of as pretty or ugly outside of those circumstances. I find if you extract the models images from those circumstances, yet hold the makeup, the clothing and the lighting and so on constant they immediately seem absurd; imagine them walking down the high street for instance. ^_^
The commercial image of beauty is an abnormal occurrence, in a way it has to be – if it was a common occurrence you couldn’t market it as effectively* but therein lies its flaw: if it’s largely unreachable it’s largely inapplicable. There is a sort of otherworldly fascination with it – but it’s more the allure of a conjuror’s trick than anything else, a novelty item.

I do find in someone who goes to the extent of the person in the first video to fill the commercial image of beauty a certain standard that speaks of trying to sell yourself to someone else, true enough. Maybe that is cynical, maybe it’s just realistic; after all it is a commercial.

However what I’m not saying is that there are no beautiful or ugly people, (I don’t really think appearance is that simple but for a reductive explanation those terms will do.) Machiavelli said it already so I’ll just quote him on the issue of the existence of visual standards/apperances vs reality:

‘Men in general judge more by the sense of sight than by the sense of touch, because everyone can see, but only a few can test by feeling. Everyone sees what you seem to be, few know what you really are, and those few do not dare take a stand against the general opinion.’

It's entirely possible of course that my aesthetic standards are simply different, or that this is more a problem in America than in Europe. I find there to be a propensity in American culture to swing to binary extremes – democrat or republican, fat or skinny, rich or poor. The middle class, the healthy, the political moderates tend to be much harder to find than elsewhere; I guess it would fit into the general theme if the beauty image swung closer to the extremes of supermodel obsession or utter neglect as well.

I hope that’s not the case, but obviously there are some major differences in culture even between states.

*There’s some truth in the statement, especially since the advent of industrialisation, that the exercise of economics is the exercise of creating relative scarcity. If something is scarce you can demand a higher price for it.
_________________
Never forget,
We stroll along the roof of hell
Gazing at flowers.
- Issa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
spawnofjaws



Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 559
Location: North Carolina! And proud of it...!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XD **hugs nem**
I knew what you were talking about, I was just being difficult and narcissistic... Very Happy
_________________
Hoffman icon courtesy of my very good friend, Isaymakebelieve, on LJ, check her out! http://community.livejournal.com/isaymakebelieve/
In my brain, I'm someone famous AND important!
Dubbed 'Egg' by ASA, but also responds to "spegg"...
Keeper of Oliblish and Teh Poodle Stick....
[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tinu.



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 3690
Location: The land of dreams

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd seen the first video before, but not the second one. And the third one is just . . . mean.
Honestly, society's obsession with being beautiful and "perfect" is slightly sickening, because, as Nem pointed out, it's not possible in everyday circumstances.

And really, I don't think models are terribly pretty - most of the time they just look scary. Like they want to eat you or something. oO;
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DarkwingPsycho



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Utah, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love those Dove videos. Mainly because, although they sell beauty products, they are also selling the idea that it's okay to not conform to the general - and totally unreachable - idea of beauty. People are so obsessed with reaching an unattainable standard that there is a sickening increase in low self-esteem, depression, and eating disorders. I see it everyday. I'm a therapist, after all.

I realize and understand some people can separate the reality of beauty from the unrealistic magazine photos, and that there is a desirable and alluring ethereal quality surrounding what is being promoted as beautiful, but I don't think that the general public can separate those ideals.

It's a subconscious thing, too, as well as conscious.
_________________
"Be great in act, as you have been in thought." ~William Shakespeare

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Elveron phpBB theme/template by Ulf Frisk and Michael Schaeffer
Copyright © Ulf Frisk, Michael Schaeffer 2004


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group