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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want them to give me the video file on a disc and leave me alone. Dang kids on my virtual lawn. It's kind of ironic, downloaded movies actually gives you a product with less hastle, even discounting all the anti-copying rubbish and unskippable propoganda they put on discs these days.
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thespaceinvader



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 650
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with that last, Tin. One of the most frustrating examples, for me at least, is the New Doctor Who DVD sets. They all have poor-quality 3D animated menus of the inside of the TARDIS which take AGES to load, and then take ages to move between each screen. I prefer a nice, simple static menu, in all honesty, though such things are rare...
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UFAlien



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Squeeself wrote:
...it's not really the Blu-ray that's got the improvements as much as the HDTVs. Blu-ray format (and the now dead HD-DVD format) is a decent enough physical medium for the source transmission, but the REAL leap in technology isn't in the storage but the playback in HighDef... Its all about price, and HDTVs and Blu-rays are still too high in the upper price range for large-scale adoption; the quality improvement just isn't worth the price for your normal consumer.

...time after time Squee has seen that most people can't tell the difference between the various HD formats (720-1080). The resolution really isn't the big deal with HD (though it certainly helps). The problem with resolution is the higher the resolution, the bigger the TV that's needed to really get noticeable differences...

Forget about the audio compression issues of DVD which isn't as big a deal when a good encoding is done (which btw, use the same algorithms and techniques as modern MP3s and other encodings).

The problem with Blu-ray is it requires HDTVs. Not only that, but it requires you to actually buy Blu-ray discs once you have it. While eventually Blu-ray will become the replacement for DVDs, its not there yet. The HD DVD format war is over, but that doesn't mean there are enough discs out there yet. Not to mention that the pricing on Blu-ray needs to come way down for good adoption.

The biggest problem, though, with Blu-rays is the timing...Digital distribution is just starting to take off at nearly the same time.


Blu-ray is the best way to use the existing HDTV format, and is currently the only home video standard to support it. I'll talk about price in a bit.

I personally use 720p. There is a 1080p TV set up at my local Blockbuster, the same size as mine. And I can tell the difference, although it's not AS huge as some people think. I'm personally fine with 720p.

I know they use the same techniques as MP3s, but in relativity, MP3s are total crap. Did you ever compare a lossless version of a song with the MP3 conversion? Big difference.

Pricing seems to be everyone's biggest misconception. It IS true that big box retailers overprice them, but did you try shopping online? The average price difference between a DVD and Blu-ray is about $5-6. As for the players? You can get them on sale for $150. At this stage in DVD's development they were still up in the $300 range.

And digital distribution... don't get me started. Low bitrates, pixelated video, lossy audio, huge download times, plus if you delete it there's no physical medium to use - it's just gone.
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thespaceinvader



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 650
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you run an online blu-ray shop or something?

=P

If I can get hold of a player which will do both, and at some point in the future have an HDTV to make use of it, I will. particularly because I like my special collectors' editions of stuff, and not a few recent releases have put those only on blu-ray.
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UFAlien



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I just love Blu-ray XD

What do you mean by "do both"?
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thespaceinvader



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play both formats. Or do they do that already?
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Tinu.



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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Location: The land of dreams

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sticking to DVD's for now. If they entirely replace DVD's, then I suppose I'll have to use Blu-Ray, but until them, I'm content with just plain old DVD's.

Besides, my parent's aren't going to get a Blu-Ray player. :B
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UFAlien



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Blu-ray players play DVDs, and upconvert them.
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Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Star Stuff

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Results below from Google


HDTV
Shopping results for HDTV
Samsung - 40" LCD TV - Widescreen $800 to $1,628 - 19 stores
Samsung SyncMaster T220HD - 22" - widescreen ... $240 to $472 - 77 stores
Sharp LC - 52" LCD TV - Widescreen - High ... $1,200 to $2,566 - 57 stores[/code]

Blu-Ray Player
Shopping results for Blu-Ray Player
Sony BDP-S300 Blu-Ray disc player $129 to $480 - 44 stores
Sony BDP-S350 Blu-Ray disc player $183 to $381 - 62 stores
Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-Ray disc player $170 to $566 - 22 stores

Surround Sound System
Shopping results for Surround Sound
Logitech G51 Surround Sound Speaker System PC ... $94 to $216 - 180 stores
Samsung HT Z510 Home theater system $200 to $449 - 12 stores
Panasonic SC PT960 Home theater system $251 to $571 - 120 stores


With the knowledge that a 20" HDTV is pretty much not worth buying, we'll go with the 40" HDTV price. Now, tally all this stuff up and you're looking at a price tag that's over $1,000. Compare this to the fact that almost any computer you buy these days will play (if not burn) DVDs. And DVD players are, well, cheap.

DVD Player
Shopping results for DVD Player
Sony BDP-S350 Blu-Ray disc player $183 to $381 - 62 stores
Panasonic DVD LS80 DVD player - 8.5 in display $124 to $299 - 22 stores
Sony DVP NS700H/S DVD player $60 to $93 - 18 stores

That Sony DVP NS700H/S DVD Player upscales the DVDs to 1080p, which requires the HDTV also. If we go a bit cheaper, into the non-upscaling DVD players, you're hitting the $30-$40 range.

Right now, the average consumer is going to stick with a DVD player. They're cheap, accessible, and the vast majority of movies are still released to DVD at this point. When the industry moves forward and abandons DVDs, Blu-Ray will take over as prime spot. Much in the same way that VHS clings to life even to this day, and you can still go buy brand new VHS players... I have serious doubts that Blu-Ray is going to manage a hostile takeover of the DVD market.

Setup costs are far too high, for a change in picture quality that requires someone to be really into their movies. For people just looking to watch the movie, it's not going to matter one way or the other. Certainly not going to matter enough to spend $1000 extra.

Personally I agree the Blu-Ray is gorgeous compared to DVD. It's not just the picture clarity, either. It's the lossless audio (which, to be honest, doesn't sound that much better than a 300+ kb/s MP3 anyway) and the color depth (which, as good as the industry has gotten at manipulating, is again not a huge difference). From a technical, geeky standpoint? Blu-Ray is like the clouds parting and the trumpets sounding. From the Average Joe's perspective? It's just a fancy, and expensive, new disc.

That's my two cents, anyhow...
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UFAlien



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, a lot of people I've shown have been REALLY impressed XD
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's impressive but is it 500 worth of impressive when you might buy six movies a year and all the decent TV boxsets are still DVD exclusives?
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Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blu-Ray seems more to me like the kind of thing people get if they absolutely, positively, must have the newest technology... Sure it's impressive, but right now Value != Cost (Or, for those of non-geek persuasion, Value does not equal Cost). When the value of owning Blu-Ray is equal to the cost of owning Blu-Ray, then you'll see it begin taking larger share from DVD.

And Nem's right. Right now, DVD simply is the preferred format for...well, almost everything.
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Tinalles
Site Admin


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: Grand Forks

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UFAlien wrote:
I dunno, a lot of people I've shown have been REALLY impressed XD


Hmm. And you were standing right there, right?

It's very clear that you are enthusiastic about blu-ray. So when you haul a friend over to your place to show off your setup, are they more likely to say "Hey, cool!" or "Man, you spent eight bazillion dollars on this thing?"

One thing that social scientists have learned is that frequently research participants will report results that they believe will please the researcher. They don't lie, necessarily, but they may put greater emphasis on their positive reactions, or downplay negative reactions. So basically, it's possible that some of the people who saw your setup played up their reactions out of politeness.
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Dark Mirf



Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just not intrested.


Some people just dont need or want anything new when they have something that already gives them what they want. Yeah, I know Blu-Ray is cool, but I have no need for it.
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Tamir



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*pats loofah* Sorry for the lack of interest here. Razz I'm too busy looking forward to the mass-production of 3d screens, myself.
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